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Declined Jailbreak Ban/Nerf Pyro

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xyso

gamert
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Feb 18, 2021
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Hello, I am writing this suggestion as to why pyro should at least be nerfed on WLN, earlier today I gathered information on how much damage pyro does from flame particles and here is what I gathered.

Flame Thrower (any flame thrower deals the same afterburn damage)
67 afterburn damage (from doing +attack; wait 1; -attack, 58 HP remaining to 125 HP classes)

Although 67 damage is not much to most classes, that is literally more than half of scout, spy, sniper, and engineer which makes rebelling so much harder, on top of that we have the other guards that are chasing you getting chip damage, and the pyro who caused the damage still burning you, no matter what (unless you jump in water) you will take 67 afterburn which makes the game so much harder to play

Flare Gun
90 afterburn damage (35 HP remaining to 125 HP classes)

Yes, this is fine since flares are hard enough to hit (especially fighting scouts) which is why I'm fine with flare gun staying since its an actually skill required pyro secondary

Scorch Shot (Direct hit + splash)
DEATH to any 125 HP class (stupidly broken)

This is what stood out to me the most, direct hit + the guaranteed splash just annoys me, like that's just complete death to ANY light class that does get in water or get health from medic. There is also a mechanic to the scorch shot where if you hit a target directly with it, it will stun them, guaranteeing the splash mini crit damage, which results in death.

Scorch Shot (Splash only)
75 afterburn damage (50 HP remaining to 125 HP classes)

This is what infuriates me the most, playing scout and trying to rebel with a scorch shot pyro is near impossible, as these can be sent across the whole map with 0 damage drop off, + the possible direct hit and stun mechanic that could kill you

The Detonator (Direct hit)
83 afterburn damage (42 HP remaining to 125 HP classes)

Now this isn't all that bad, since the Detonator itself is pretty hard to line up then manually detonate it. Overall its just a underused weapon that I rarely see on WLN

The Detonator (Splash)
74 afterburn damage (51 HP remaining to 125 HP classes)

This is something that confuses me, 74 damage from a splash hit, but 83 from a direct? Directs are hard to hit especially on scouts and the splash hit is almost identical to the direct damage, only a 9 HP difference, so it confuses me why there's such a little damage gap.



and with that we come to our conclusion, that's all of the information I gained with a friend, now you might ask, "What's the point of making this? Do you really want pyro to be banned?". No, I don't want pyro to be banned at all, all I'm asking with this suggestion post is to at least have some pyro weapons banned, I know you might just reply to this saying to get better, and to that I say that after 250+ matches of experience playing against pyros, I've only won 8, and between asking 5 friends on their experience with fighting pyros, they barely win either. The weapons I am specifically asking to be removed are primarily just the scorch shot and try to reduce afterburn damage towards all flame inducing weapons (if that's possible with SourceMod). Thank you for reading and I hope you have a good rest of your day.
 

MsPunchy

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Dec 15, 2021
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Wow there is a lot to take in here.

1. Scout is Pyro's 2nd/3rd hardest counter, any Scout with even remotely decent skill will run a Pyro right over without breaking a sweat, unless they get unlucky and are forced into a CQC situation that they can't leave, his scattergun and mobility demolishes Pyro and Pyro can't really do anything about it at all.

2. Afterburn from flamethrowers doesn't work that way, and hasn't worked that way for 4 years. The time afterburn from flamethrowers lasts is dependent on how long the target had been exposed to direct flames, if the target had only been exposed for a small bit (As a scout, there is little excuse for having extended afterburn from a flamethrower, you are a fast class more than capable of escaping his flamethrower range, even if you get unlucky)
Minimum afterburn is 3 seconds long, and afterburn without mini crits will always be 4 damage per tick, meaning around 24 damage from afterburn total.

3. All flare guns inflict 7.5 seconds of afterburn, meaning it's about 60 damage from afterburn total if the target wasn't already on fire, a lot more sure. But consider that these are still projectiles that you have to hit. By the time a Pyro should see you when you rebel (you are the fastest class after all) the distance between you and the Pyro firing projectiles should make escaping easy.

4. Ah the fabled Scorch Shot. This is one I almost agree with you about, it has been my most despised weapon in the game for years, since it's just annoying (albeit not op at all). Despite this, getting direct hit as a Scout of all classes by the thing, and getting hit by the full splash, is your own fault. The Scorch shot isn't the easiest weapon to avoid, but avoiding its directs are a cakewalk.


Pyro can be worked around, Scout is already by far the best rebelling class. A good sniper will always be a far bigger thorn in your side than a Pyro ever will as a Scout. I don't mean to discourage you or anything, I just feel that this suggestion comes more as a frustration with fighting Pyros (a common one among more inexperienced players), rather than as one that would definitively improve the server. I recommend you spend more time improving your skills as Scout, he's a lot of fun and by far the most powerful head to head combat class, which is great at holding his own in hit and run tactics or just demolishing someone in a direct fight.

Cheers

(Sources for stats: https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Fire#Afterburn)
 

Ass Slayer

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Dec 21, 2021
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Pyro is annoying asf fr but if you're a good scout, you should be able to confuse them or use your mobility to your advantage. Just sneak up on pyros and rape them from behind or use your pistol to pick em off. Pyros can't do much from mid to long range, and you can basically just farm HP if you're using the pocket pistol.
 

The Pesterer

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Jul 13, 2021
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-1 if u think doing 125 damage is op just look at the direct hit it does up to 140 damage. the machina can do up to 517 damage. this can even kill a heavy that ate the dakoloh bar thats overhealed the scattergundoes up to 80-100 damage on a direct hit. demoman's gernade launcher will do 100 damage. for pyro to deal a lot of damage he needs to light up his enemies and aim. yea sure if your in a crowded enough place the chance of you getting hit is less slim. nerfing pyro is an unfair move for a lot of people for these reasons. it would also the class less fun.
 

lolnutt

what the pog doin?
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firstly, we cant ban an entire class, secondly I don't know if you realize this or not but this is more of a problem with valve in of it's self and not an issue with wonderland as a whole. besides if you are dying to a pyro at long range because of a scorch shot maybe just maybe you should start not standing still. actually counts for most of these. As for the flamethrowers bruuuu that shit was broken like 6 years ago and has only been made worse since jungle inferno so idk what we can do about that
 
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