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Declined jailbreak: trolldier viability

?

  • yessir

    Votes: 7 38.9%
  • no (pls tell why D:)

    Votes: 11 61.1%

  • Total voters
    18
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MissMaye

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nobody is gonna change the default stats on the gardener and there's virtually no reason to change something that isnt broken, so... like.... what else do you want me to say
 

yoyo

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nobody is gonna change the default stats on the gardener and there's virtually no reason to change something that isnt broken, so... like.... what else do you want me to say
pretty sure u’re joking rn
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nobody is gonna change the default stats on the gardener and there's virtually no reason to change something that isnt broken, so... like.... what else do you want me to say
if for the 1% you're not joking, then here is a response:

"there's virtually no reason to change something that isn't broken"
3 people gave the exact same logic on this thread. I backed them up all saying "This isn't about fixing the market-gardener, it's about opening up more class selections so that wln jailbreak can be a fun and diverse place". your claim of "virtually no reason" is false.
If so, why would they buff the engineer in the latest log? He wasn't broken at all. He was fine where he is, but the reason they buffed him is so that he could actually be viable in teamplay. I've written this same message 3 times for 3 people now. Go read.

the default Market Gardener is fine where it is, but it is shadowed by so many other weapons. By buffing the market gardener, it will actually make the class more viable, thus, more players will consider playing trolldier, and therefore, have fun because of the diverse experience.

"nobody is gonna change the default stats on the gardener"
what do you mean by this? are you saying that it's a tedious job? or maybe that my suggestion is doomed to fail?
or is it an impossible change? -- you can of course change the damage output of the gardener
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you may not be the only person who supports a change but there's nothing good about it, legit you wasted a thread
elaborate on this too plz
 
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yoyo

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Trolldier is fine as he is no need for buffs or anything. You really just have to bait people a lot to go a certain direction.
i don't rlly think he is fine where he is. I mean he can do his job for sure as a roamer, but it can definitely be balanced up. Just one tweak and he'll be perfect; a high risk - high reward class.
My reasoning for why he isn't fine is that the most picked class in the game is demoknight. Even if you do the most insane jumps or mind games, it's impossible to pick them off without using a shotgun secondary. a crit does 195. a demoknight's health is 200.

You may suggest that i finish them off with a shotgun, but a shotgun secondary for trolldiers is very shameful. I tend to avoid it.
Stupid reasoning -- i know. but the buff wouldn't hurt, right? Trolldier is a very difficult class, and the buff will totally compensate for that difficulty.
I think it'll open up the trolldier class to fit in more of the meta


Thank you for giving a logical response. I appreciate it
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then maybe dont play trolldier on jailbreak
:huskytard:
just get good lol
any updates on you two? I gave you my logic. now i'm waiting for your guys counter explanations. ty
 

Smug Rebellion

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i don't rlly think he is fine where he is. I mean he can do his job for sure as a roamer, but it can definitely be balanced up. Just one tweak and he'll be perfect; a high risk - high reward class.
Than in that case shouldn’t spy be buffed because he has very low health and some weapons that put him at very low health and can only effectively kill people with back stabs and using his revolver? No, You can’t do that for a class that is meant to be high risk -> high reward because that defeats the purpose of the high reward part.
You may suggest that i finish them off with a shotgun, but a shotgun secondary for trolldiers is very shameful. I tend to avoid it.
Stupid reasoning -- i know. but the buff wouldn't hurt, right? Trolldier is a very difficult class, and the buff will totally compensate for that difficulty.
I think it'll open up the trolldier class to fit in more of the meta
Using a shotgun isn’t a shameful tactic Imo, it’s just looked down upon because it isn’t the Mantreads. Plus the buff wouldn’t be able to compensate anything but, allowing him to get more of an advantage on others. The whole point of a high risk -> high reward play style is for the reason why it’s risky. It’s not supposed to be easy. Trolldier takes time to master and if you can master it then you shouldn’t be playing the class. All you have to do is bait people out and effectively rocket jump that’s it.
 

yoyo

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Apr 22, 2018
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Than in that case shouldn’t spy be buffed because he has very low health and some weapons that put him at very low health and can only effectively kill people with back stabs and using his revolver? No, You can’t do that for a class that is meant to be high risk -> high reward because that defeats the purpose of the high reward part.

Using a shotgun isn’t a shameful tactic Imo, it’s just looked down upon because it isn’t the Mantreads. Plus the buff wouldn’t be able to compensate anything but, allowing him to get more of an advantage on others. The whole point of a high risk -> high reward play style is for the reason why it’s risky. It’s not supposed to be easy. Trolldier takes time to master and if you can master it then you shouldn’t be playing the class. All you have to do is bait people out and effectively rocket jump that’s it.


Spy is very similar to the trolldier. Both can do great burst damage, and both are "high-risk high-reward".
The difference between them is the playstyle. The stereotypical spy uses mind-games (trickstabs) and sneaky tactics to pick off enemies, while on the other hand, trolldiers have a more confronting and aggressive playstyle. There are sooo many ways to counter trolldiers, which backs up the claim of "high-risk", and against players who know what they are doing, i say, shouldn't the trolldiers get the advantage?

Trolldier, right now, is high-risk, but the reward doesn't justify for that. You can't even pick off the most common class, so what good is there?
It's supposed to be "high-reward", so my suggestion will compliment that.

I can see your logic for the shotgun. You changed my perspective on that. If the suggestion doesn't go through, i guess I'll have to rely on the shotgun. However, i don't think the shotgun should be the deciding factor on which to buff the market gardener or not. The mantreads exist, and it will reward players who already do well, to perform even better. Therefore, raising the skill-ceiling, creating a more engaging and skillful environment.

my point, in the big picture:
I never said that trolldier should become easier; my goal is for the trolldier to live up to the difficulty of the class itself.

I'm also confused on when you said " trolldier takes time to master and if you can master it then you shouldn’t be playing the class". Can you elaborate on that?


Thank you once again, for a very detailed response. I truly mean it
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I'm emphasizing on the fact that there are way more cons than pros for playing trolldiers.
You can counter them sooo easily, which is why i think the trolldier deserves the buff
 

Smug Rebellion

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Spy is very similar to the trolldier. Both can do great burst damage, and both are "high-risk high-reward".
The difference between them is the playstyle. The stereotypical spy uses mind-games (trickstabs) and sneaky tactics to pick off enemies, while on the other hand, trolldiers have a more confronting and aggressive playstyle. There are sooo many ways to counter trolldiers, which backs up the claim of "high-risk", and against players who know what they are doing, i say, shouldn't the trolldiers get the advantage?
Btw trolldiers don’t have to play aggressively and I don’t think you understand the point of a high risk high reward play style because you still ask for the trolldier to be buffed when in all reality it doesn’t need to happen.
I'm also confused on when you said " trolldier takes time to master and if you can master it then you shouldn’t be playing the class". Can you elaborate on that?
Rocket jumping effectively to put yourself in shoveling range is how you master the class and learning when to swing the shovel or not or going all in or not. If you don’t get the hang of rocket jumping than you shouldn’t play the class that much because that’s they only way you are going to get crits. It’s by rocket jumping effectively.
 

yoyo

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Btw trolldiers don’t have to play aggressively and I don’t think you understand the point of a high risk high reward play style because you still ask for the trolldier to be buffed when in all reality it doesn’t need to happen.

Rocket jumping effectively to put yourself in shoveling range is how you master the class and learning when to swing the shovel or not or going all in or not. If you don’t get the hang of rocket jumping than you shouldn’t play the class that much because that’s they only way you are going to get crits. It’s by rocket jumping effectively.

You're not telling me why trolldiers don't deserve that buff. Your reasoning has always been that the skill of rocket jumping is all that matters, right?
Why do they not deserve the buff? Before you answer that, please consider below:

My main point and what you should consider is that even the greatest of trolldiers still will get shadowed.
It doesn't matter how good you are at rocket jumping, how good your mindgames or how good you are at baiting. Even if you're as good as Afterglow or Aurora, or if you can hit your shots every time, you will still not live up to the high-reward.
If you can't pick off the common class in each match, that's truly a problem


Once again emphasizing on the fact that trolldier is super easy to counter, which is why i truly believes he deserves the buff
 

yoyo

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i aint elaborating shit

trolldier is fine as-is and needs no changes and you may be one of the 6 people on wln who dont agree with that
don’t vote if you’re not willing to have an open mind
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Expected more from an ex-admin but idk man the world is stressful nowadays so I totally understand it
 

MissMaye

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if you give people the option to say no and then give reason, and then you get upset that people dont agree, why make a thread in the first place, my mind is open, my third eye is too, and i can see theres nothing worth changing about it, end of
 

yoyo

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if you give people the option to say no and then give reason, and then you get upset that people dont agree, why make a thread in the first place, my mind is open, my third eye is too, and i can see theres nothing worth changing about it, end of
can't agree that your mind is open because you're literally twisting all my words and ignoring everything. it's impossible to change your mind, karen.
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As in just get better and practice, theres no need for a buff.
another example of a person who didn't bother to read.
gave up on trying to convince you. keep your vote.
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-1. A class required on skill. A subclass that can wipe people out in 1-2 shots required on skill does not require a buff. Trolldier is fun. That's the main purpose of it. Fun.
the reward does not justify the skill. therefore, it is not satisfying and not rewarding to play trolldier, therefore, unfun.
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market garden then shot gun
sure. will totally try : - )
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buruh they are right get over it
your ignorance is killing me inside.
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literally countered everything you guys said in my messages and i still yet do not receive any counters.
feels like i'm talking to a fucking wall rn. ????
 
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