Remove pyro nerf

Eight

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#1
Vote on if you want Pyro re-buffed or if you want his nerf kept.

I would vouch for reverting it. I don't feel it is justified to nerf a whole class because of it's destructive capabilities. Yes, you can easily mass freekill with pyro, but you can also easily mass freekill with demoman, soldier, and I'd venture to say other classes too if staff aren't on and a player is skilled enough to fight off prisoners they're targeting. Pyro is not an obtusely unbalanced class in TF2 as a whole, and neither had it been for me in Jailbreak. However, with this nerf, it is considerably more weak and very less viable as an overall class for BLUs.
 

Socks

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#2
The pyro nerf was too harsh. Just because it can mass freekill does not mean it should be nerfed. There are more effective classes at mass freekilling if anything. Yes, remove the pyro nerf.
 

Vladdleco

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#3
Yes
The pyro needs to be re-buffed.
I agree with Socks and Eight. Why the pyro would be the only class to be nerfed ? Either you nerf all the mass-killing classes or you buff the pyro to make it fair and make all the classes meta as blu.
 

Walnuts

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#4
I don't believe that it was as effective as some people may have thought in the beginning, so I would like to see it fixed.
 

SuperGuard

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#5
If we do adjust it, maybe reduce the effectiveness of the nerf a bit but don't remove it. I've seen a huge decrease in mass freekilling caused by Pyros since the nerf was added so it's definitely suitable to have it in place, even if we are cooling it down. I accept that Soldiers, Demos and even Heavies also have the ability to mass freekill but it's fair to say that Pyros easily trump being able to cause the most destruction, so we can't afford to revert back to that.
 

<2F F> Captain Maxxy

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#6
I think the afterburn should stay gone as thats what ends up killing a lot of people if frehitting.

What really restricts pyros in combat is primarily the ammo, when you drain faster as it does now its hard to deal the right amount of damage with flamethrower alone, and against people who run or heal, you're gonna run out of ammo before you can do anything.

I say keep the no afterburn but remove the ammo drain.
 

Captain Weeb

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#7
Yes/no
I'm with maxxy on this, I believe that pyro is incredibly weak in terms of being able to be an effective guard and even rebeller for that matter. I think that removing the ammo drain but keeping in the no afterburn will make him much better without him having that same MFK potential.
 

R4

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#8
Pyro nerf should be removed, the reasoning for even nerfing it in the first place made no sense.

It's just as easy to mass freekill with a Machina, or stickies or rockets, there's nothing special about a pyro's ability to mass freekill so unless you want to nerf all those classes too it should be removed.
 

Eight

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#9
If we do adjust it, maybe reduce the effectiveness of the nerf a bit but don't remove it. I've seen a huge decrease in mass freekilling caused by Pyros since the nerf was added so it's definitely suitable to have it in place, even if we are cooling it down. I accept that Soldiers, Demos and even Heavies also have the ability to mass freekill but it's fair to say that Pyros easily trump being able to cause the most destruction, so we can't afford to revert back to that.
To restate what I said earlier, for the purpose of discussion on the thread:

Mass freekills by Pyros have only decreased because Pyro is very underpowered now overall. We solve the problem of Pyros mass freekilling I suppose, but we also introduce the issue of Pyro being unviable and players just choosing other classes to mass freekill with.

Neither would I agree Pyro has more destructive capability. The class has the ability to give off lots of short-mid range damage towards many REDs, sure, but only that. If prisoners are spread out, they will have much more trouble running to hit them, and they will also inevitably enter the melee ranges of various REDs, leaving vulnerability. Compare this to Soldier and Demoman, who have longer ranged explosive weapons. Sure, both are slower, but their longer range means they don't have to worry about chasing around REDs spread out as much as Pyro, neither risk dying from REDs defending themselves as much given their rocket/sticky jump capabilities and what has been previously been mentioned.

Also, for the record, I am not really on board with keeping the afterburn nerf either, as what I said above is still applicable to that. Pyro's afterburn is an integral feature for the class in combat, and the class would still be significantly weaker without afterburn.
 

Ray

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#10
+1
I find it there is 1 class to go 1v5+ reds it’s going to be the pyro, without him you either need to be mlg or get mauled by reds
 

Frussly

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#11
Im down, just dont bring back the afterburn.
 

Vladdleco

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#12
What about bring back afterburn but with less damage ?
 

SuperGuard

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#13
To restate what I said earlier, for the purpose of discussion on the thread:

Mass freekills by Pyros have only decreased because Pyro is very underpowered now overall. We solve the problem of Pyros mass freekilling I suppose, but we also introduce the issue of Pyro being unviable and players just choosing other classes to mass freekill with.

Neither would I agree Pyro has more destructive capability. The class has the ability to give off lots of short-mid range damage towards many REDs, sure, but only that. If prisoners are spread out, they will have much more trouble running to hit them, and they will also inevitably enter the melee ranges of various REDs, leaving vulnerability. Compare this to Soldier and Demoman, who have longer ranged explosive weapons. Sure, both are slower, but their longer range means they don't have to worry about chasing around REDs spread out as much as Pyro, neither risk dying from REDs defending themselves as much given their rocket/sticky jump capabilities and what has been previously been mentioned.

Also, for the record, I am not really on board with keeping the afterburn nerf either, as what I said above is still applicable to that. Pyro's afterburn is an integral feature for the class in combat, and the class would still be significantly weaker without afterburn.
Pretty much I can agree that the nerf needs to be pulled back a bit to make Pyro somewhat viable again but I stand by keeping afterburn removed. The key reason I think Pyro is more destructive when it comes down to MFK is because you can slay the Pyro after the start dealing damage, but reds are still vulnerable to dying from afterburn if it's not handled properly.
 

LUV

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#14
I don’t want the nerf to be reverted as a whole, but instead tone down on what was nerfed. Remove the rate at which ammo is consumed while also keep the removal of afterburn.

Partial +1
 

Eight

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#15
Pretty much I can agree that the nerf needs to be pulled back a bit to make Pyro somewhat viable again but I stand by keeping afterburn removed. The key reason I think Pyro is more destructive when it comes down to MFK is because you can slay the Pyro after the start dealing damage, but reds are still vulnerable to dying from afterburn if it's not handled properly.
The Pyro's afterburn is a useful tool whilst in combat, removing it is a cripple for the Pyro and frankly an unnecessary one. While yes, the Pyro's afterburn effect can pick off people after it is dealt with for a mass freekill, I would compare this to a compensation for the immediate damage inflicted. This immediate damage inflicted by a flamethrower being on a smaller scale than rocket launchers & grenade launchers, weapons that are more deadly on a crowd of REDs and could inflict damage comparable to a flamethrower and it's afterburn combined before dying.

Overall, while afterburn can persist after a freekiller has died, this is nothing over powered compared to other classes that can inflict heavier amounts of damage.
 

Mom

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#16
this thread stupit pyro fine after every change
 
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#17
I don’t want the nerf to be reverted as a whole, but instead tone down on what was nerfed. Remove the rate at which ammo is consumed while also keep the removal of afterburn.
i agree with this, no one plays pyro much any more, you just have to not be a retard to prevent mass killing. the lack of afterburn is however a welcome nerf
 

R4

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#18
Pyro afterburn is balanced based on the fact they can deal less damage overall in direct combat to other combat classes.
This whole argument that even after a slay they can still kill people, therefore, it needs to be nerfed makes no sense. In the case of other combat classes such as a soldier or a demo those reds would already be dead since they deal all their damage up front.
 
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