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Declined Suggested ruling for 2fort/Turbine

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Eight

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This could be added as a ruling to the General rules or just enforced by staff whenever the issue arises, since it's a specific rule for two maps. I used to disallow this in the past even, but then I was told it was allowed, so I'm making a suggestion to discuss disallowing it.

I want to add a rule along the lines of:
  • If you are carrying the intel you must be making an active effort to cap it. Do not purposefully prevent the objective from being played.
I've seen a lot of people (particularly friendlies) hog the intel with the intent of preventing others from capping, and it ruins how the game is supposed to be played of course. The team with the person who's hogging the intel is literally unable to win, while the enemy team is given a great advantage and would actually be at a disadvantage to kill the user. I don't think this should be allowed especially since our 2fort servers (and by extension Casual servers) are taken relatively more seriously.

Yes I can understand that there are situations that arise when you need to hold onto the intel for a while, and so that's why I am not phrasing the rule as "intel hogging." There's a clear difference between playing the objective and not playing it.

One rebuttal that people may make to this is that the enemy should just kill the person who has the intel. This is true, however most of the time the people doing this have support from the enemy team, as with what I stated before with it benefitting them. You could also make this similar argument with other actions disallowed for ruining gameplay (like purposefully blocking sniper views or spamming the Frying Pan on people - perhaps an overarching rule for offenses like these could be implemented?) since those are also ones where the enemy is better off not killing anyone since it's teammates putting other teammates at a disadvantage.

Another rebuttal I can see is that this could set a precedent for enforcement of other rulings on the Casual servers like "No friendlying" under the basis of the servers being more serious, which could negatively impact us. For that I'd argue that this is different because it is directly impacting everyone's gameplay, as opposed to other actions like friendlying which usually doesn't directly impact surrounding gameplay besides I guess taking up a slot on the team. If anything though, I consider this more of an issue than idling.

Thoughts?
 
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Aldash

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-1

I don't agree with implementing this rule and I will say why.

it ruins how the game is supposed to be played of course.

There is an objective of CTF yes, but from what I have seen the Wonderland CTF servers aren't that competitive and enforcing more competitive based rules such as these would ruin the fun for the people who enjoy being friendly. Of course, people who want to cap the objective will always try to get the intel (as you said in your post) but some of my good memories of 2Fort is getting the Red team together to get into the Blue sewers and get our intel back. It does make the game harder for the other team but I do not believe it warrants a staff members intervention.
 

Rain

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While some people enjoy being friendly, none of the servers are by default classed as friendly ones. If I recall correctly, the 2fort servers are among those that do not even have the /friendly command, and so it becomes arguable that the objective can absolutely be taken more seriously. The way I see it is that preventing friendly players from hogging the intel would not be enforcing a "competitive rule", but rather preventing someone from potentially trolling their team who may care more about the game mode. I just can't see the reason to prioritize friendly players over people who actually go for the objective, especially on an objective-based map.
 

JackFusion

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I'm going to say neutral, leaning towards -1. As stated above me, many people see these servers as non-serious servers, and from my experience, as been mainly a place for people to mess around and I'm sure many may not take an objective such as capturing intelligence seriously, as it's a community server. However, as much as I appreciate friendlies, there are also very many people who want a place to play seriously that won't affect their comp/casual rank, ergo they play on community servers. Though I do agree that friendlies should not be taking the intelligence, I also don't agree that doing this warrants punishment or staff intervention as Aldash previously mentioned. While yes, these servers are not made primarily for friendlies, I don't feel that the objective should be taken absolutely seriously, either.
 

Stao

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-1 maybe.

This would be getting into territory of making these inherently sillier servers more serious. If we went this route, we'd need to divide up servers into serious and silly servers, which I'm for.
 

Eight

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Firstly I want to establish that the Casual/combat-focused servers have generally been taken more seriously than say Trade or whatever, you can see this with the lack of !friendly and the no idling rule established on there. This is how we treated Turbine and vanilla Orange when they were more more popular, and how we treated 2fort now in it's rise in popularity.

So if we go by that precedent just based off of it having generally not caused us issues, then IMO we should use that same mindset here if it would aid gameplay in the sense of well how CTF is if it's being treated as CTF.

I also don't even think this ruling will harm friendlies a lot. Yes you will have some round ends be more guaranteed with enforcement of this ruling, but the amount of caps needed for a win (at least for 2fort) is 10, so it's not like friendlies doing whatever they are doing will be interrupted much since rounds don't (and probably won't with this ruling in place) pass by quickly. If anything friendlying is way more disturbed by people killing them, and of course we aren't going to be establishing any rules tryharding.

I also would argue this requires staff intervention. Players should be allowed to, as I said before, play CTF as it is intended to be played if we are going to host vanilla Casual maps. However with this you enter situations where the team must rely on the enemies to kill someone carrying the intel, which goes against the whole aspect of offense/defense that a team must work to perform for their base, their own intel, etc. enshrined in TF2. I mean there's literally no strategy otherwise since we don't have the votekick system actual Casual does.
 
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Eight

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Seems like there's mixed votes but majority is against.

I'll leave this open for an additional 48 hours and deny it if it doesn't gain a significant amount of support within that timeframe.
 
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