ZM but everyone's viable

Can you sign my petition to rework ZombieMod this way?

  • Of course not, duh.

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  • Total voters
    3

LifostFox

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Sep 10, 2019
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Hello, my fellow zombiemod enthusiasts, i am here to talk about very specific topics such as game balance. I've played ZM server a while by this point to actually think about what can be improved. So, let's begin.

How can the ZM balance be improved?
To start off, i get that the main point of the mode is to camp in one place till the timer shows four zeros. So, what are the first characters you want to pick for this purpose in main game? Engineer, Sniper, Heavy, probably Soldier or Demo. Those guys can provide enough firepower to lock down the specific area on the map. But half of their power lies within their survivability: Engineer can defend himself with sentries, Heavy has more HP than everyone else, Soldier has a lot of HP but also provides mobility. However, this factor gets completely nullified when you consider that your life ends in one hit PERIOD. What do you do in this case? Probably stay in place where enemy gets a lot of trouble trying to get you, right? Welp, throw this idea to the window, cover it in gasoline and burn to ashes, 'cause you have to deal with little Boston thots who can get in any place within half of a minute or so. What do you do to counter this? Pick Heavy or Pyro? I mean they can tank a little and have a lot of fi- OH WAIT you get oneshot by a sneeze. The only viable choice remaining is to go Engie and build somewhere in peace. So, we get teams of 10 engineers building in one place and taking all 3 limited sentries. You see, the ZM "meta" provides advantage only to Engineers and Heavies, since they're the only classes who can deal with oneshot zombies by simply knocking them back till they reach Pluto orbit. Why? Why all 7 other classes get nothing but the ability to go eat brains? Why things like Force-a-Nature jumping, which allows for ridicilous results:20190908231655_1.jpg (the roof of the RED spawn, zm_watermill);
aiming skills, positioning, mobility, etc. - everything gets overshadowed by the brain-dead shooting till timer shows four zeros?

The actual suggestions

  • Make every class be able to survive one hit (or more) from a zombie, like Demoman (<100 hp + hit = ded), since brain-dead W+M1 scouts aren't fun for both sides.
  • Nerf the Zombie Scouts' attack speed to the other classes' level, because again, W+M1 scouts.
  • Make mobility way more rewardable to motivate more people to learn something aside from Engie-spam.
  • Add more mobility-oriented maps, those are always satisfying to play on.
  • Nerf Thermal Thurster - reduce the height of the jump by half or give them only one charge before cooldown, whatever. Easy mobility doesn't equal good mobility.
  • Maybe i'm imaginating this, but remove the extended melee range of the zombies. TAKE THIS, HUMAN! 20-METERS EMERALD MELEE!
  • Make Soldier useful, god damnit.
  • Engie limit. 3 or 4 for a team, to prevent teams of 10 engies and 2 Brass Beast Hoovys.
  • Make Spy useful, Gaben's sad

    Stats for every class
  • Scout-human. Can handle one hit from the Zombie, increased jump height (10-15%, no more), all Scatterguns recieve 50% accuracy buff. Idea: Mid-range combat while using terrain in every possible way.
  • Scout-zombie. Gets only +25 health after being infected. Triple jump can be used with every melee weapon, BUT with 12 seconds cooldown. Idea: Glass cannon and the reason to pick something else.
  • Soldier-human. Can handle two hits from the Zombie. All Rocket Launchers get +60% ammo bonus (32 rockets in total) and +20% projectile speed bonus, Shotguns get 30% accuracy buff. Buff Banner gives full crits for 10 seconds, Battalion's backup gives +50 health instead of +20 and gives +70% damage resistance while activated, Concheror gives +30% accuracy buff, +40% projectile speed bonus, minicrits on airborne targets, +40% speed buff. All melee weapons mini-crit while below 150 health and crit while below 100 health. Idea: support everyone u dummy
  • Soldier-zombie. Gets +20% speed buff. Can use banners. Banners slowly charge over time (20-30 seconds). Recieves +40% speed buff and mini-crit damage while below 60 health. Idea: Kinda glass cannon but also support.
  • Pyro-human. Can handle two hits from the Zombie. Gets +30% speed buff, +50% primary ammo, +30% secondary ammo, running with melee gives +20% speed buff but also +15% damage vulnerability. Thermal Thurster has only one charge. Gas Passer gives the AoE cloud that deals damage over time AND increases afterburn duration by 6 seconds. All Flare Guns recieve +50% projectile speed and mini-crit on airborne targets. Phlogistonator recieves +15% speed buff on MMMPH. Idea: Scout 2.0
  • Pyro-zombie. Thermal Thurster has only one charge before cooldown. Sharpened Volcano Fragment gets +70% damage bonus in an exchange for +40% damage vulnerability. Fire Axe applies bleed on hit but has -50% attack speed. Axetingushier can light people on fire. Powerjack recieves +10% movement speed. Neon Annihilator now provides +30% movement speed and crits when user's below 100 health. Homewrecker's second hit on a building disables buildings nearby. Backscratcher gives +15% more damage but +20% damage vulnerability. Idea: same pyro but sidegrade.
  • Demoman-human. Can handle from two to three hits from the Zombie. All melee weapons recieve +30% damage bonus when combined with a shield. All primary weapons recieve +100% ammo bonus and +30% projectile speed bonus. All Stickybomb launchers recieve -45% damage bonus in the first 7 seconds of them being deployed to prevent sticky spam. Boot primaries recieve +30% speed bonus All shields get overall Damage resistance instead of blast/fire resistance: Charge'n Targe - 50%, Splendid Screen - 30%, Tide Turner - 15%. Idea: team player/solo demoknight
  • Demoman-zombie. All Boot primaries recieve +10% speed bonus. All Sword weapons recieve +2.5 seconds of charge. All shields get overall Damage resistance. Ullapool Caber has a 10 seconds cooldown to get a new one. Idea: buff him already lol
  • Heavy-human. Can handle four hits from the Zombie. All Primary weapons recieve +50% ammo bonus but -20% fire rate. Tomislav recieves +15% accuracy bonus. Brass Beast recieves +30% movement speed while revved up. All Food secondaries give teammates a mini-crit bonus for 3 seconds. Fists of Steel recieve +60% damage bonus and +10% movement speed while active. Huo-Long Heater is now able to set enemies on fire upon hit. GRU and Eviction Notice no longer drain your health while active but instead provide +35% and +15% damage vulnerability. KGB's third hit is a guaranteed crit. Holiday Punch now makes zombies laugh on hit but reduces your maximum health by 50%. Fists get an +30% movement speed while active. Idea: tank as it should be, duh
  • Heavy-zombie. Every Melee provides +20% damage resistance. GRU and Eviction Notice no longer drain your health while active but instead provide +35% and +15% damage vulnerability. KGB's third hit is a guaranteed crit. Holiday Punch now makes human laugh on hit but reduces your maximum health by 50%. Fists get an +30% movement speed while active. Fists of Steel recieve +20% ranged resistance while active but -50% movement speed. Can use Food secondaries. Idea: tank as it is.
  • Engineer-human. Can handle one hit from a Zombie. Rescue Ranger can now refill Sentry's ammo on hit and recieves +30% projectile speed and +50% ammo bonus. Pompson 6000 mini-crits mid-range and recieves +200% projectile speed and +30% reload speed. Short Circuit's primary fire has more range and slows target by 20%. Short Circuit's alternative fire has +50% radius and can grab enemy players and transport them short distances. Wrangler's shield now gives only 33% damage and healing resistance. Jag gives +30% ammo to Sentries. Wrench gives +20% health bonus to buildings. Southern Hospitality provides +30% damage bonus to buildings. Dispensers and Amplifiers recieve +100% range buff. Idea: make every engie weapon viable
  • Engineer-zombie. Can build level 1 teleporters. All Melee weapons recieve +30% swing speed and mini-crit while below 80 hp. Eureka Effect's teleportation disables buildings in a medium-size radius for 8 seconds. Gunslinger recieves +10% damage bonus and +20% movement speed bonus. Wrench gives +60 HP bonus. Jag recieves +20% swing speed but -15% damage bonus. Southern Hospitality recieves +10% swing speed. Idea: make him do something.
  • Medic-human. Can handle one hit from a Zombie. All Medic primaries recieve +50% projectile speed bonus. Syringe Gun slows his targets and marks them with a mini-crit mark for 1.5 seconds. Overdose gives +40% movement speed w/o need of uber. Blutsauger recieves +30% damage bonus and heals 5 hp on hit but -50% clip size. Crusader's Crossbow recieves +20% damage bonus and +30% projectile speed bonus but -40% attack speed. Quick-Fix's Ubercharge now heals in an AoE but only with 30% overheal. Kritzkrieg builds Ubercharge +30% faster. Vaccinator now selects between 20/80% DR, +15% damage bonus/Mini-Crits or 20/60% movement and attack speed. Amputator now passively heals in an AoE. Bonesaw applies bleed on hit. Vita-Saw gives +20% Ubercharge rate. Idea: everything should be viable.
  • Medic-zombie. Gets +10% movement speed buff. Bonesaw applies bleed on hit. Vita-Saw gets +30% damage bonus. Amputator now passively heals in an AoE and gives +40 HP. Ubersaw now has an alternative fire after four hits which makes Medic invulnerable for 4 seconds. Idea: everything should be viable.
  • Sniper-human. Can handle one hit from a Zombie. Sydney Sleeper applies Jarate on an AoE. SMG has +50% ammo bonus and +20% damage bonus. Cleaner's Carabine now gives crits instead of mini-crits. Jarate gives an AoE cloud which covers enemies in piss (like Gas Passer but piss). Darwin's Danger Shield gives +30% damage resistance. Cozy Camper gives +50% primary ammo bonus. Kukri mini-crits while below 70 HP. Shahanshah gets +50% damage bonus but +40% damage vulnerability. Bushwaka gives +40% movement speed bonus. Idea: same as always.
  • Sniper-zombie. Can use his Backpack secondaries and Jarate. Jarate gives an AoE cloud which covers enemies in piss (like Gas Passer but piss). Darwin's Danger Shield gives +30% damage resistance. Cozy Camper gives +50% primary ammo bonus. Kukri mini-crits while below 70 HP. Shahanshah gets +50% damage bonus but +40% damage vulnerability. Bushwaka gives +40% movement speed bonus. Idea: same as above.
  • Spy-human. Can handle one hit from a Zombie. Every primary mini-crits on headshot. Ambassador's crits are no longer affected by distance. Disguise makes Spy's border (the thing you see as zombie) invisible. L'etranger gets +40% ammo bonus and +20% reload speed. Revolver gets +20% damage bonus. Enforcer gets +50% damage bonus but -40% firing speed. Diamondback gets 2 crits from backstabs. Knife gets +20% swing speed. Your Eternal Reward gives +50 health on user. Conniver's Kunai's overheal can reach 350 HP. Big Earner no longer takes 25 HP. Spy-cicle blocks one fatal hit in on a single life. Idea: spy y'know
  • Spy-zombie. Can ONLY backstab. All Cloaks' invisibility time is increased by 50%. Your Eternal Reward actually disguises you as an enemy while sending infected to the spawn but not hide the scream. Conniver's Kunai gives +20% movement speed. Knife gives +30% swing speed. Big Earner gives +40% speed bonus on hit. Idea: trickstabs should work.


    Whew...That was a lot. Thank you for your attention and i'm looking forward to see your feedback! Arrividerci!
 
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Lime Paint

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although you bring good points in your suggestion

its to long for me to really get it, thats whats stopping me from bringing full support

and although i wouldn't know how to do any of this (or if its actually possible) i would imagine this would take serious time when we could be adding in something cooler/better
 

LifostFox

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Joined
Sep 10, 2019
Messages
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although you bring good points in your suggestion

its to long for me to really get it, thats whats stopping me from bringing full support

and although i wouldn't know how to do any of this (or if its actually possible) i would imagine this would take serious time when we could be adding in something cooler/better
Thanks for your feedback.
 

Bio Medic Offline

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Feb 1, 2019
Messages
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Hello, my fellow zombiemod enthusiasts, i am here to talk about very specific topics such as game balance. I've played ZM server a while by this point to actually think about what can be improved. So, let's begin.

How can the ZM balance be improved?
To start off, i get that the main point of the mode is to camp in one place till the timer shows four zeros. So, what are the first characters you want to pick for this purpose in main game? Engineer, Sniper, Heavy, probably Soldier or Demo. Those guys can provide enough firepower to lock down the specific area on the map. But half of their power lies within their survivability: Engineer can defend himself with sentries, Heavy has more HP than everyone else, Soldier has a lot of HP but also provides mobility. However, this factor gets completely nullified when you consider that your life ends in one hit PERIOD. What do you do in this case? Probably stay in place where enemy gets a lot of trouble trying to get you, right? Welp, throw this idea to the window, cover it in gasoline and burn to ashes, 'cause you have to deal with little Boston thots who can get in any place within half of a minute or so. What do you do to counter this? Pick Heavy or Pyro? I mean they can tank a little and have a lot of fi- OH WAIT you get oneshot by a sneeze. The only viable choice remaining is to go Engie and build somewhere in peace. So, we get teams of 10 engineers building in one place and taking all 3 limited sentries. You see, the ZM "meta" provides advantage only to Engineers and Heavies, since they're the only classes who can deal with oneshot zombies by simply knocking them back till they reach Pluto orbit. Why? Why all 7 other classes get nothing but the ability to go eat brains? Why things like Force-a-Nature jumping, which allows for ridicilous results:View attachment 3876 (the roof of the RED spawn, zm_watermill);
aiming skills, positioning, mobility, etc. - everything gets overshadowed by the brain-dead shooting till timer shows four zeros?

The actual suggestions

  • Make every class be able to survive one hit (or more) from a zombie, like Demoman (<100 hp + hit = ded), since brain-dead W+M1 scouts aren't fun for both sides.
  • Nerf the Zombie Scouts' attack speed to the other classes' level, because again, W+M1 scouts.
  • Make mobility way more rewardable to motivate more people to learn something aside from Engie-spam.
  • Add more mobility-oriented maps, those are always satisfying to play on.
  • Nerf Thermal Thurster - reduce the height of the jump by half or give them only one charge before cooldown, whatever. Easy mobility doesn't equal good mobility.
  • Maybe i'm imaginating this, but remove the extended melee range of the zombies. TAKE THIS, HUMAN! 20-METERS EMERALD MELEE!
  • Make Soldier useful, god damnit.
  • Engie limit. 3 or 4 for a team, to prevent teams of 10 engies and 2 Brass Beast Hoovys.
  • Make Spy useful, Gaben's sad

    Stats for every class
  • Scout-human. Can handle one hit from the Zombie, increased jump height (10-15%, no more), all Scatterguns recieve 50% accuracy buff. Idea: Mid-range combat while using terrain in every possible way.
  • Scout-zombie. Gets only +25 health after being infected. Triple jump can be used with every melee weapon, BUT with 12 seconds cooldown. Idea: Glass cannon and the reason to pick something else.
  • Soldier-human. Can handle two hits from the Zombie. All Rocket Launchers get +60% ammo bonus (32 rockets in total) and +20% projectile speed bonus, Shotguns get 30% accuracy buff. Buff Banner gives full crits for 10 seconds, Battalion's backup gives +50 health instead of +20 and gives +70% damage resistance while activated, Concheror gives +30% accuracy buff, +40% projectile speed bonus, minicrits on airborne targets, +40% speed buff. All melee weapons mini-crit while below 150 health and crit while below 100 health. Idea: support everyone u dummy
  • Soldier-zombie. Gets +20% speed buff. Can use banners. Banners slowly charge over time (20-30 seconds). Recieves +40% speed buff and mini-crit damage while below 60 health. Idea: Kinda glass cannon but also support.
  • Pyro-human. Can handle two hits from the Zombie. Gets +30% speed buff, +50% primary ammo, +30% secondary ammo, running with melee gives +20% speed buff but also +15% damage vulnerability. Thermal Thurster has only one charge. Gas Passer gives the AoE cloud that deals damage over time AND increases afterburn duration by 6 seconds. All Flare Guns recieve +50% projectile speed and mini-crit on airborne targets. Phlogistonator recieves +15% speed buff on MMMPH. Idea: Scout 2.0
  • Pyro-zombie. Thermal Thurster has only one charge before cooldown. Sharpened Volcano Fragment gets +70% damage bonus in an exchange for +40% damage vulnerability. Fire Axe applies bleed on hit but has -50% attack speed. Axetingushier can light people on fire. Powerjack recieves +10% movement speed. Neon Annihilator now provides +30% movement speed and crits when user's below 100 health. Homewrecker's second hit on a building disables buildings nearby. Backscratcher gives +15% more damage but +20% damage vulnerability. Idea: same pyro but sidegrade.
  • Demoman-human. Can handle from two to three hits from the Zombie. All melee weapons recieve +30% damage bonus when combined with a shield. All primary weapons recieve +100% ammo bonus and +30% projectile speed bonus. All Stickybomb launchers recieve -45% damage bonus in the first 7 seconds of them being deployed to prevent sticky spam. Boot primaries recieve +30% speed bonus All shields get overall Damage resistance instead of blast/fire resistance: Charge'n Targe - 50%, Splendid Screen - 30%, Tide Turner - 15%. Idea: team player/solo demoknight
  • Demoman-zombie. All Boot primaries recieve +10% speed bonus. All Sword weapons recieve +2.5 seconds of charge. All shields get overall Damage resistance. Ullapool Caber has a 10 seconds cooldown to get a new one. Idea: buff him already lol
  • Heavy-human. Can handle four hits from the Zombie. All Primary weapons recieve +50% ammo bonus but -20% fire rate. Tomislav recieves +15% accuracy bonus. Brass Beast recieves +30% movement speed while revved up. All Food secondaries give teammates a mini-crit bonus for 3 seconds. Fists of Steel recieve +60% damage bonus and +10% movement speed while active. Huo-Long Heater is now able to set enemies on fire upon hit. GRU and Eviction Notice no longer drain your health while active but instead provide +35% and +15% damage vulnerability. KGB's third hit is a guaranteed crit. Holiday Punch now makes zombies laugh on hit but reduces your maximum health by 50%. Fists get an +30% movement speed while active. Idea: tank as it should be, duh
  • Heavy-zombie. Every Melee provides +20% damage resistance. GRU and Eviction Notice no longer drain your health while active but instead provide +35% and +15% damage vulnerability. KGB's third hit is a guaranteed crit. Holiday Punch now makes human laugh on hit but reduces your maximum health by 50%. Fists get an +30% movement speed while active. Fists of Steel recieve +20% ranged resistance while active but -50% movement speed. Can use Food secondaries. Idea: tank as it is.
  • Engineer-human. Can handle one hit from a Zombie. Rescue Ranger can now refill Sentry's ammo on hit and recieves +30% projectile speed and +50% ammo bonus. Pompson 6000 mini-crits mid-range and recieves +200% projectile speed and +30% reload speed. Short Circuit's primary fire has more range and slows target by 20%. Short Circuit's alternative fire has +50% radius and can grab enemy players and transport them short distances. Wrangler's shield now gives only 33% damage and healing resistance. Jag gives +30% ammo to Sentries. Wrench gives +20% health bonus to buildings. Southern Hospitality provides +30% damage bonus to buildings. Dispensers and Amplifiers recieve +100% range buff. Idea: make every engie weapon viable
  • Engineer-zombie. Can build level 1 teleporters. All Melee weapons recieve +30% swing speed and mini-crit while below 80 hp. Eureka Effect's teleportation disables buildings in a medium-size radius for 8 seconds. Gunslinger recieves +10% damage bonus and +20% movement speed bonus. Wrench gives +60 HP bonus. Jag recieves +20% swing speed but -15% damage bonus. Southern Hospitality recieves +10% swing speed. Idea: make him do something.
  • Medic-human. Can handle one hit from a Zombie. All Medic primaries recieve +50% projectile speed bonus. Syringe Gun slows his targets and marks them with a mini-crit mark for 1.5 seconds. Overdose gives +40% movement speed w/o need of uber. Blutsauger recieves +30% damage bonus and heals 5 hp on hit but -50% clip size. Crusader's Crossbow recieves +20% damage bonus and +30% projectile speed bonus but -40% attack speed. Quick-Fix's Ubercharge now heals in an AoE but only with 30% overheal. Kritzkrieg builds Ubercharge +30% faster. Vaccinator now selects between 20/80% DR, +15% damage bonus/Mini-Crits or 20/60% movement and attack speed. Amputator now passively heals in an AoE. Bonesaw applies bleed on hit. Vita-Saw gives +20% Ubercharge rate. Idea: everything should be viable.
  • Medic-zombie. Gets +10% movement speed buff. Bonesaw applies bleed on hit. Vita-Saw gets +30% damage bonus. Amputator now passively heals in an AoE and gives +40 HP. Ubersaw now has an alternative fire after four hits which makes Medic invulnerable for 4 seconds. Idea: everything should be viable.
  • Sniper-human. Can handle one hit from a Zombie. Sydney Sleeper applies Jarate on an AoE. SMG has +50% ammo bonus and +20% damage bonus. Cleaner's Carabine now gives crits instead of mini-crits. Jarate gives an AoE cloud which covers enemies in piss (like Gas Passer but piss). Darwin's Danger Shield gives +30% damage resistance. Cozy Camper gives +50% primary ammo bonus. Kukri mini-crits while below 70 HP. Shahanshah gets +50% damage bonus but +40% damage vulnerability. Bushwaka gives +40% movement speed bonus. Idea: same as always.
  • Sniper-zombie. Can use his Backpack secondaries and Jarate. Jarate gives an AoE cloud which covers enemies in piss (like Gas Passer but piss). Darwin's Danger Shield gives +30% damage resistance. Cozy Camper gives +50% primary ammo bonus. Kukri mini-crits while below 70 HP. Shahanshah gets +50% damage bonus but +40% damage vulnerability. Bushwaka gives +40% movement speed bonus. Idea: same as above.
  • Spy-human. Can handle one hit from a Zombie. Every primary mini-crits on headshot. Ambassador's crits are no longer affected by distance. Disguise makes Spy's border (the thing you see as zombie) invisible. L'etranger gets +40% ammo bonus and +20% reload speed. Revolver gets +20% damage bonus. Enforcer gets +50% damage bonus but -40% firing speed. Diamondback gets 2 crits from backstabs. Knife gets +20% swing speed. Your Eternal Reward gives +50 health on user. Conniver's Kunai's overheal can reach 350 HP. Big Earner no longer takes 25 HP. Spy-cicle blocks one fatal hit in on a single life. Idea: spy y'know
  • Spy-zombie. Can ONLY backstab. All Cloaks' invisibility time is increased by 50%. Your Eternal Reward actually disguises you as an enemy while sending infected to the spawn but not hide the scream. Conniver's Kunai gives +20% movement speed. Knife gives +30% swing speed. Big Earner gives +40% speed bonus on hit. Idea: trickstabs should work.


    Whew...That was a lot. Thank you for your attention and i'm looking forward to see your feedback! Arrividerci!
I completely agree, however I think it would also be great if the zm mod was similar to the intox zombie mod
 

Bio Medic Offline

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Never played on intox one, can you explain a bit more, please?
Well back in 2013 the Intox zombie mod was the absolute best !!! If it was still on tf2 I would abonden Wln's zm and change to intox, this is because of it's originality. The intox zombie mod had a fair yet interesting concept of zombies. The zombies were glowing green, they did not always instantly infect + whenever you were hit by the infected you would turn red indicating that you were infected but not turned yet. Zombie spy and scouts did not instant kill they were balanced + the scout had a special weapon, the sandman had the capability to get humans at a hard to reach distance (personal I think thats better than a zombie with a jetpack). The sandman would infect you but not instantly. Whenever you were infected you had to kill a zombie to become un-infected or heal yourself with medical supplies. The survivors had special perks as well, Medic's crussader crossbow could instantly kill zombies, engineer could have a lvl 3 sentry, and more. If you want to know more about the intox zombie mod here: https://steamcommunity.com/groups/zfintox
and here:

Also this was before the wln zombie mod came out, I would trade out wln's zombie mod for intox zombie mod. I not sure if wln copied off of intox because they both have the same maps but are slightly different. Also the humans could change their team color
 
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