Accepted Cadiland's Ban Appeal

[Cadilandxd]

1.) Include your ban profile link:

Ban List | Wonderland.tf — Bans

bans.wonderland.tf

2.) Explain what happened / why you have been banned:

I was the warden during a normal round. After doing out of cell rebel day I told all red all days were over and to report to the CLOSEST ADJACENT LINE IN FRONT OF YOUR CELLS. A couple reds, 2 or three, argued that the imaginary line that separates two textures from the cell door and in front of it with the cobblestone counted as the closest adjacent line. Clearly this is not true especially since i said CLOSEST IN FRONT. I proceeded to kill them and went on the round normally, I had apparently killed the administrator for this at this point but was not punished until multiple rounds later at which they claimed that I had killed them for doing what the other two reds had did. Later into that same round I had two reds left and told them last one to jump dies. I waited for both reds to jump and killed the last one to do it. I didn't know that the last command I did was against the rules but alas it was only one kill on top of the other two or three. I can't argue that the last kill was a freekill but I can argue that the reds that died in front of their cells for not being on the closest adjacent line in front of their cells were not freekilled. My ban reason was for mass free kill. How was this at all mass freekill if the kills were spread out through the round. And if this was mass freekill why was I banned so much later into the game if it was such an urgent mass free kill? I don't understand how I'm in the wrong with the closest adjacent line its like no one has gone to school.

3.) Tell us why we should unban you:

I will include some photos to make this easier to understand. The reds reasoning behind how they were freekilled is completely absurd. I feel like that this was not mass free kill and possibly one freekill. I also feel that realisticly, being blue banned for a day spent alive is essentially a week of game time if I actively play on the server and I feel that is rediculous. I have posted numerous images to prove my point. It also saddens me that the administrator that banned me claimed that this was adjacent.

If you want, you can ask the admin that banned me to confirm the locations of where I killed the reds. Once again, I should not be excused for killing the red at the end of the round for playing an invalid game but this was ONE RED. In this case I feel like I should still be banned but only for a minor time like 30 minutes. Thank you

 

[Mew]

I made the decision to teamban you AFTER that round and ~1-2 minutes into the second round after reviewing my footage. When you gave that order of "whoever jumps last dies" and after looking at your previous teambans, I decided to escalate the punishment.

That order of "go to the closest adjacent line in front of your cells" is extremely vague. So vague in fact that all reds have to do to fulfill that order is walk out and take one step onto any line that main cell area is littered with. I don't see why you would need to go to the red line in front of the cells .

My defintions:
Adjacent: Next to or adjoining something else.
Texture: The feel, appearance, or consistency of a surface or a substance.
Mass: Large number of people
Freekill: Killing someone for no reason / with an invalid reason

I can argue that the reds that died in front of their cells for not being on the closest adjacent line in front of their cells

Now, I can see where you're coming from with that statement, however, my belief is that if the warden is not clear with his/her orders, and there's confusion about what line to go to because you weren't specific, and then you kill those reds. Well I think that's on you.

I would argue that the reds dying on that line aren't wrong. Let me give you some examples of my thinking. Take the red line in main cell area, for example, the change in texture, is basically why it's called a line. If there's no change in texture and it's one solid floor of the same material, well, there'd be no red line there.

Let me use a simple piece of paper as an example of my thinking.

This whole sheet is a solid texture, therefore, there is no line apparent on the center of the face. However, the edges of the paper are definitely lines.


Now, I hope we can all agree that this square is made up of 2 lines intersecting the corners of the square. The whole reason of why we can see the line, is because it's a change in texture. One half the paper is a dark purple, whereas the lower half is a lighter purple, thus a change in texture is the whole reason of why we can see this line.

Now let's move to minecraft. Here we can see that there's 2 different surfaces which make up our surface. Orange and blue wool.

The whole reason why theres a very clear line down the center is because the of the texture change between the orange and the blue wool.

Now with stone and blue wool:

Again, it seems that there is a very clear line that forms at the point at which the two different textures meet.

Now, let's apply the same pattern that we have seen to the materials of the cell/cell area:

Albeit, the line is MUCH harder to see, there is definitely a line that spans between the change in textures of the two materials. It's harder to see but there is definitely one there according to the principle explained in the previous images.

Ok, now let's move onto the wording of the order. The term "adjacent" can mean next to or adjoining something else. I can as well argue that the line formed by the difference of the two textures is adjacent to the cell.

For instance, take this image of man sleeping with his hand next to his phone.

If I wanted someone else to grab the phone, I could refer to it like this: "Please grab the phone next to my hand" or, according to the definition of adjacent, "Please grab the phone adjacent to my hand". See how those could both work?

Looking at the cells now, you can definitely refer to the line formed by the change in texture between the two surfaces as "The line next to the cell" or "The line adjacent to the cell". (Blue and orange wool is used to make the line stand out)



Now, looking at the image of the cells, we can see that the line formed by the texture change is in fact IN FRONT of the cells and the CLOSEST thing (you take one step and you're on the line).


If your intention is to get all the reds onto the red line in front of your cells. Why can't you just say "go to the red line in front of your cells"?

Now, all "mass" means is a large number of people. And MFK is largely up to the admin's discretion/judgement about what they determine is freekilling a good number of people. Doesn't matter whether you freekill 5 people over the course of 5 rounds, the point is, you're freekilling and you're killing a large number of people.

Originally, I would not teamban you for 1440 Minutes for freekilling 3 people. Frankly, that isn't what I would determine "large enough" to be categorized as that. However, after seeing your previous offenses (both of which are MFK), you should've already learned to be more cautious about who to kill vs who not to kill.



I'm not going to be the one handling your appeal, but this is just my side of the story.

 

[Cadilandxd]

Are you actually arguing with me that the line separating the texture of the floor of the cells and the cobblestone outside of the cells counts as a line? What???!? Also your picture is wrong. There doesn't need to be a wall next to the red line for it to be the adjacent line in front of their cells. THAT LINE IS THE LINE. I am one hundred percent certain that if I walked to the line that that separates the cell doors from the rest of the world when they said closest line in front of your cells, I would die without a doubt. That example you gave makes no sense and is false.

Lets talk about your reasoning behind why a change in texture is a line. You are overthinking what I said when I said a change in texture is not a line. Of course there has to be a different texture to be a line but the separation between the lines of the cobblestone and smoothstone bricks of the cells is a really lame and weak excuse to ban me for killing you for standing on it. This "imaginary" line should not be considered a line at all because it's clearly and obviously intentionally not the line NOT TO MENTION THIS LINE IS NOT IN FRONT OF THE CELLS ITS INSIDE OF THEM.

When you say that I should have told everyone to go to the red line, that's not true. I wanted to kill off some reds if they failed 3rd grade math.This is the reason why people do trick orders, I see admins and other players do trick orders all the time, am I not allowed to myself? You can see why I'm frustrated because people don't understand what ADJACENT MEANS. THIS IS ELEMENTARY SCHOOL STUFF.

 

[demon]

Spoiler: definitions

in my opinion, "closest adjacent line in front of your cells" would imply any line, be it a change in texture, or a proper wool line, so if they were standing directly in front of their cells as the floor changes texture they're standing adjacent to the front of the cells. if you were referring to mathematical adjacency, you really should have specified that, as the main definition for adjacency is something being next to something else, nothing to do with angles or any geometry (which, by the way, isn't elementary. the vast majority do not learn about geometry before leaving elementary school). thus, since you didn't specify that you were talking about mathematical adjacency, people standing directly in front of the cells shouldn't have really been kos. before you go getting your panties in a knot and saying "brain dead admins brain dead admins!!!" your order would have been more valid had you properly defined what version of adjacency you were referring to. just because you're in geometry and have to memorize what the word adjacent means doesn't mean that everyone else is going to instantly know that you're referring to that.

The geometric definition of adjacent is “Adjacent sides are those the are next to each other. They share a common vertex” The vertex in this case is the 90 degree angle created by the joining of the red and blue lines. Therefore, we know without a doubt the red and blue lines are adjacent.

i would say that since he says adjacent to the cells, the front of the cells is your base line and you're looking for adjacent lines to that reference. this is for the mathematical definition, the vertex would be the point where the, albeit not 1D, red line intersects with the front of the main cell area.

I am one hundred percent certain that if I walked to the line that that separates the cell doors from the rest of the world when they said closest line in front of your cells, I would die without a doubt.

if the warden were to say "the line" closest in front of cells, you would naturally ask which color line, as its a bit vague. the closest line to the front of the cells for someone on the far left (facing the cells from the main cell area) would be the blue line, while someone in the bottom right cell would go to the red line. this already confusing situation gets even more tricky once the warden throws in the word adjacent, and without a proper definition you've suddenly got a very peculiar scenario. i also find it funny that you're arguing for the mathematical definition of adjacency instead of the more generic definition, but then aren't willing to consider the mathematical definition of a line, which is a 1 dimensional section that connects 2 points. the mathematical line is non-mathematically adjacent to the cells, and since none of this additional lingo was used, it is very hard to determine exactly where you are asking them to go.

NOT TO MENTION THIS LINE IS NOT IN FRONT OF THE CELLS ITS INSIDE OF THEM.

this line is actually what separates the cells from the rest of the world. i would not consider it inside cells, i wouldn't consider it outside of cells either. i would consider it a boundary between two regions, namely a line that separates two regions. as this definition of that line would make it it's own region (? for lack of a better word), i would consider it to be non-mathematically adjacent to the cells.

The “hard to see” line the reds stood on is parallel to the front of cells, and not adjacent. The reds that were killed would be KOS anyways because the “line” they stood on is parallel and not adjacent. If we were to draw one line along the front of cells, and one alone the line the reds stood on, they could never intersect no matter how long the lines were, because they are parallel.

again, assuming most people here aren't defaulting to mathematical adjacency as their primary definition. i would say that a line directly touching the front of the cells is the closest line that is non mathematically adjacent to the cells.

moving past all the mathematical lingo and etc, i'd like to move on to more of an administrative perspective. interestingly enough, you've already been banned twice for mass freekill, once by the auto moderation (for killing too many people) and once by an actual admin. giving orders like this with such a level of ambiguity after having already been banned twice for mass freekill was probably not a smart choice, and here we are. while this isn't as important towards what you are appealing, the attitude you've shown in this report is really something this community could live without, you aren't very willing to consider other people's opinions. not to mention you're already permanently banned for teaching others how to exploit. that will probably be even harder to appeal than this is with a track record like the one you've created for yourself.

 

[Cadilandxd]

First of all I didn't teach anyone any exploit lmao please do your research of what typing "rcon anything" does before you assume that since you just like dick riding other admins and not actually caring to find out what it does.

Second of all, all of you guys don't know what you are talking about, arguing with pure logic to idiots doesn't work. Thats all I have to say. I can't believe all of you don't have the mental capacity to know what closest adjacent like to the front of your cells means. Its rediculous

 

[Eight]

First of all I didn't teach anyone any exploit lmao please do your research of what typing "rcon anything" does before you assume that since you just like dick riding other admins and not actually caring to find out what it does.

Second of all, all of you guys don't know what you are talking about, arguing with pure logic to idiots doesn't work. Thats all I have to say. I can't believe all of you don't have the mental capacity to know what closest adjacent like to the front of your cells means. Its rediculous

Instead of being disrespectful to staff, do you have any reasoning why Demon is wrong in his response? Otherwise I will just close this appeal since, with your attitude, I have no interest doing you any favors. If anything, this disrespectful attitude of yours tells me to suspend your forum account. So I'd advise, if you wish to go anywhere with being unbanned, you be nicer.

 

[Cadilandxd]

this line is actually what separates the cells from the rest of the world. i would not consider it inside cells, i wouldn't consider it outside of cells either. i would consider it a boundary between two regions, namely a line that separates two regions. as this definition of that line would make it it's own region (? for lack of a better word), i would consider it to be non-mathematically adjacent to the cells.

So they should have died regardless which is what the admin that banned me was doing. A line like this should not be considered a line to afk freeze at, at all unless specified.

moving past all the mathematical lingo and etc, i'd like to move on to more of an administrative perspective. interestingly enough, you've already been banned twice for mass freekill, once by the auto moderation (for killing too many people) and once by an actual admin. giving orders like this with such a level of ambiguity after having already been banned twice for mass freekill was probably not a smart choice, and here we are. while this isn't as important towards what you are appealing, the attitude you've shown in this report is really something this community could live without, you aren't very willing to consider other people's opinions. not to mention you're already permanently banned for teaching others how to exploit. that will probably be even harder to appeal than this is with a track record like the one you've created for yourself.

Yes because I have been banned in the past means that if I kill 3 reds for not doing my commands because they don't know what adjacent means, immediately means I mass freekilled. Even if its only 3 reds when the other 20 reds or so went to the correct line. Kind of odd right?

if the warden were to say "the line" closest in front of cells, you would naturally ask which color line, as its a bit vague. the closest line to the front of the cells for someone on the far left (facing the cells from the main cell area) would be the blue line, while someone in the bottom right cell would go to the red line. this already confusing situation gets even more tricky once the warden throws in the word adjacent, and without a proper definition you've suddenly got a very peculiar scenario. i also find it funny that you're arguing for the mathematical definition of adjacency instead of the more generic definition, but then aren't willing to consider the mathematical definition of a line, which is a 1 dimensional section that connects 2 points. the mathematical line is non-mathematically adjacent to the cells, and since none of this additional lingo was used, it is very hard to determine exactly where you are asking them to go.

I don't think i've ever heard a warden say closest in front of their cells, even if this was the case it's not what I said. This still does not disprove that the only adjacent line on the map closest to the front of their cells, was the red line. That is a fact end of story.

in my opinion, "closest adjacent line in front of your cells" would imply any line, be it a change in texture, or a proper wool line, so if they were standing directly in front of their cells as the floor changes texture they're standing adjacent to the front of the cells. if you were referring to mathematical adjacency, you really should have specified that, as the main definition for adjacency is something being next to something else, nothing to do with angles or any geometry (which, by the way, isn't elementary. the vast majority do not learn about geometry before leaving elementary school). thus, since you didn't specify that you were talking about mathematical adjacency, people standing directly in front of the cells shouldn't have really been kos. before you go getting your panties in a knot and saying "brain dead admins brain dead admins!!!" your order would have been more valid had you properly defined what version of adjacency you were referring to. just because you're in geometry and have to memorize what the word adjacent means doesn't mean that everyone else is going to instantly know that you're referring to that.

The line that is the exit of their cells would not be adjacent because it is the line that is the front of their cells in your definition. A line on top of another line cannot be adjacent so yes the people directly in front of cells are kos because that is the line that I am referring to when I say adjacent to: ..... . You all fail to oppose my points.

 

[demon]

First of all I didn't teach anyone any exploit lmao please do your research of what typing "rcon anything" does before you assume that since you just like dick riding other admins and not actually caring to find out what it does.

all i did is check your punishments as i can trust my other staff members to be able to make accurate judgments on punishments, if you want to appeal that i'd be happy to take a look. i've got plenty of experience with rcon, if all you were doing was telling people was how to use rcon then you should appeal it. it's not like you can do anything with rcon without having the password anyways.

Second of all, all of you guys don't know what you are talking about, arguing with pure logic to idiots doesn't work. Thats all I have to say. I can't believe all of you don't have the mental capacity to know what closest adjacent like to the front of your cells means. Its rediculous

you don't have the mental capacity

rediculous

calling people idiots to flex your geometry knowledge is really the worlds biggest power move, i must say. i'm done dealing with your genuine incompetence and lack of understanding anyone's thought process besides your own. if you even read my post you'd see that i acknowledged your order as being somewhat valid, but not worded properly. maybe next time check your spelling before you call people idiots and then proceed to say something's rediculous. must've slipped under your radar as you had to throw in a final statement before posting after checking to see if everything else was up to par.

So they should have died regardless which is what the admin that banned me was doing. A line like this should not be considered a line to afk freeze at, at all unless specified.

im willing to agree that they probably should have been kos, but again when you throw in a phrase like adjacent to the front of cells, that would mean something that is touching the front of cells. the line that is the front of cells is technically touching the front of cells, but that is a bit of a stretch. again, poor choice of words is what i'd chalk it up to.

Yes because I have been banned in the past means that if I kill 3 reds for not doing my commands because they don't know what adjacent means, immediately means I mass freekilled. Even if its only 3 reds when the other 20 reds or so went to the correct line. Kind of odd right?

a history of being banned is generally a good indication that you're on track to being banned again, kind of neat right?

I don't think i've ever heard a warden say closest in front of their cells, even if this was the case it's not what I said. This still does not disprove that the only adjacent line on the map closest to the front of their cells, was the red line. That is a fact end of story.

again, i said this before but you must have skimmed over it, if we're counting lines as mathematical lines like you're considering adjacency as mathematical adjacency, another option would be the edge of the top platform. this is precisely the reason i've been trying to say that there are vast differences between jailbreak adjacency and mathematical adjacency, but you're too thick-skulled to piece that together i guess.

Spoiler: this edge on the left of the cobblestone

The line that is the exit of their cells would not be adjacent because it is the line that is the front of their cells in your definition. A line on top of another line cannot be adjacent so yes the people directly in front of cells are kos because that is the line that I am referring to when I say adjacent to: ..... . You all fail to oppose my points.

it is the line that is the front of their cells

thus making it adjacent, per the definition of being next to it. i understand that you are saying it needs to crossing the line to make it adjacent but i'll repeat it a third time to try to pierce your impenetrable psyche that adjacent has multiple definitions, and yours is a less common one than the one we are going by. if i'm standing adjacent to someone else, we're shoulder to shoulder or elsewise near each other, its got nothing to do with any lines.

..... . You all fail to oppose my points.

^

 

[Stao]

Jailbreak is a gamemode based off of common sense. It should be noted that, if something is unclear, we generally go the stick with "this is what reasonable, common person would think/agrue, not a "workaround or "technicality." We will reduce your teamban to 3 hours total. While I don't believe you intended to mass freekill, your toxic behavior will not get you anymore off.

As for your permanent ban, make a separate appeal.