Declined WLN becoming trading community & Adding unusual trade server

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Kruthal

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So.. I've had thoughts about this community becoming trading community, currently wonderland is only gaming community. But the community could be expanded to also trading.

Why add unusual trading server/take trading seriously? Well, our community is very popular, we got so many regulars/donators, the community is ranked top 1 in teamwork.tf and has avg 500-1k players every day. We got so many trading servers, of course most don't trade and just practice sniping, but there are still occasions where we see players trading and staff receiving reports about scammers.
If the unusual trading server gets implemented/trading will be taken seriously?, we're going to have trade reports and people asking for middleman services, however I doubt our current staff is going to have to handle those, because there will be likely (seperate staff) - trading staff & middlemans to deal with them. The ranks are for higher ups to decide.

As seen, we currently also have a trading subforum, it's not much used, but there are still some topics about people selling their unusuals. I think that wonderland could become more known & active than it is right now, if trading would be taken seriously.

Overall I wanna hear people's opinion about this and whether they like the idea or not.
 

Eight

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I like the idea. The only hurdle (besides kickstarting the server of course) in my eyes is forming policies surrounding trade fraud and enforcing them. I have no experience in this department, so I wouldn't be able to help much.
 

Red

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I really want to support the idea since I also used to trade and often struggled to find good unusual trading servers, but much like Eight, I think there is a lot of work and dangers behind hosting trade servers.
 

Stao

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Bumping with support.
 

TK

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When it comes to trading scams will always happen. Unfortunately they are becoming more common. Potentially to enter the new trade servers there should be an agreement signed whereby all the legal jargon (or tf2 equivalent of) is contained and that must be signed and put on forums in order to access. I'm happy to write something up if that helps but that would go alongside needing more requirements maybe hours played kr other tbc. But yeah with the right implementation I can get behind it
 

Carlo

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I like the idea. The only hurdle (besides kickstarting the server of course) in my eyes is forming policies surrounding trade fraud and enforcing them. I have no experience in this department, so I wouldn't be able to help much.
As what Eight said, forming policies surrounding trade fraud and enforcing them is the only thing that worries me. The idea intrigued me and I think that it would be very helpful and useful for the community. You have my support!
 

Buns

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So.. I've had thoughts about this community becoming trading community, currently wonderland is only gaming community. But the community could be expanded to also trading.

Why add unusual trading server/take trading seriously? Well, our community is very popular, we got so many regulars/donators, the community is ranked top 1 in teamwork.tf and has avg 500-1k players every day. We got so many trading servers, of course most don't trade and just practice sniping, but there are still occasions where we see players trading and staff receiving reports about scammers.
If the unusual trading server gets implemented/trading will be taken seriously?, we're going to have trade reports and people asking for middleman services, however I doubt our current staff is going to have to handle those, because there will be likely (seperate staff) - trading staff & middlemans to deal with them. The ranks are for higher ups to decide.

As seen, we currently also have a trading subforum, it's not much used, but there are still some topics about people selling their unusuals. I think that wonderland could become more known & active than it is right now, if trading would be taken seriously.

Overall I wanna hear people's opinion about this and whether they like the idea or not.
This seems like an alright idea. As people have previously stated, there are a few flaws involving scams and that can cause a few problems. I am no expert, but that is something to be worried about. For this idea as a whole, I think it will be pretty good for the community.
You have my support on this
 

Aldash

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Neutral, leaning to -1

Trading servers have been in decline due to sites like scrap.tf, mannco.trade, bazaar.tf and backpack.tf really making non-unusual trading much easier.

The only trading servers in which there is a lot of trading are unusual trading servers that have it so you get kicked unless you have an unusual equipped, although I think that an unusual trading server may be beneficial many traders already have servers that they trust and will know they can get people to reply to their trades (Vatican/harpoon are some examples).


Tl;dr

Trading servers are less needed, It would be hard to gain trust from active traders.
 

SL :p

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Neutral, leaning to +1.

You see; it's fun to play on those trade servers.
Forcing it to trading may make some members migrate on different servers, and they might lose each other, because of migrating to different servers.

It'll be way better if the trade-forced servers were seperately from regular ones.
 

Voodoo | JuJuYu

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Okay, so I feel like I have quite a little bit of input towards this topic tbh
So starting off, to create a trade server specific too unusual trading would first imply these things in my opinion:
  1. We would require heavier trading policies for general trading as well as unusual trading.

    Let me clarify, running a trade server on the scale of unusual trading does not require much more than what is already required on normal trade servers, I will expand why briefly in a second. On top of this, Unusual trading is a very difficult market to get into, (Let alone becoming a more community based group focused on trading as well on top of game modes like Jailbreak).

    So adressing my first two statements:

    Trade servers require little moderation regarding scamming, trades or any other former of player interactions that happen inside of a trade, the reason for this is due too it being a steam interaction between players, once the players commit to a trade, as a community we are not liable to what is done within that trade. If someone does get scammed as a result there is little we can do, as steam themselves put many safeguards in place to prevent this.

    Next point regarding getting into a trading community based server group as a hole is quite difficult, as most groups have either had there servers established for a long time, and are well know for it or just have a large organisation supporting them. Meaning they instantly have an advantage in terms of promotion. I am not against the idea, but getting into the larger trade market entirely is already quite difficult when most other communities or servers have already established a strong grip on them. As well due too how uncommon trading in unusual's can be I feel there is not a need for one at the moment.

    Regarding my initial statement that Unusual trading requires heavier policies I would like to expand on that here more:

  2. Trading policies:

    Wonderland.tf can not take responsibility for every trade, and if you're staff or an active trader you know that, but that doesn't mean safeguards from the community itself can't be created. I would like to provide some examples:

    Spycrabbing (The idea of two spies emoting with the disguise kit till one of them has done the spycrab taunt 3 times, once done they lose), typically both parties bet an item. Usually most trade servers require a large amount of moderation because of how popular it can be, especially due to the lack or proof except players words against each other. (I digress).
    Spycrabbing can be popular for higher wealth based players due to spycrabbing for unusuals, and i feel this is where staff can excell in widening the staff team to more trade servers, as moderating these higher based bets is almost always required due to the scale and risk involved in them.

    My next safeguarding point that I feel should be addressed is (Which is already promoted), there should be a stricter policy on trading, especially unusual trading, and what I mean by this is, "trading servers with unusuals involved should have both parties confirm with a staff member or have some kind of physical verifcation that the trade is fine" the reason for this is it prevents players from reporting/complaining about any trades, as well it provides evidence of a transaction taking place, it prevents wonderland from being held accountable etc.

    Next most trade communities have an immediate ingame rules list as an open window (Like /store or /vipmenu), you have /trules (Trade rules), which are specific for the server. They are available for players which means that they are easier to uphold and provide safeguarding for players.
For the time being these are my main points on the matter of unusual trading, (Any edits to this will be made in this colour).
The idea itself is good, but requires large amounts of preperation and I think we would as a community need staff more focused towards trading servers in general as well as they require a lot of effort to maintain and safeguard players in a way that doesn't negatively effect the community or player base on the servers.

For now I will vote neutral.

Safe guarding is also high maintenance, so it is also a massive risk to the player base that it doesn't come across agressive. (Also like aldash said, trading websites like the affor mentioned have caused trade servers too decline, it is a risky decision to have a server like this).
 

Kruthal

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I'm confused here, are you against with the overall idea of trading community or unusual server only? (Same goes to Aldash).
 

Voodoo | JuJuYu

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I'm confused here, are you against with the overall idea of trading community or unusual server only? (Same goes to Aldash).
My point is not that I am against the idea of the server, I just don't think that now is a good time to impliment it, as it takes so much time to prepare one, due to the nature of the server, I think it would be nice to have one, but I think if we dedicated time to having an unusual trade server, we would need stricter policies towards trade server's as a hole, and at least two staff who spend extensive amounts of time on them who have a solid grasp on trading, terms used, understanding of pricings etc.

I am sorry for any confusion, but the idea is good in theory but it takes quite a lot of time to get it all up and running, because there is such a large difference between the margin of normal trading and then unusual trading, I feel just stronger policies and rules would have to be put in place, as well as a few staff dedicated to the server specifically.

So my conclusive statement is that i am not against it at all, I just think it requires a lot of time to finalise.
 

The Orange Birb

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+1 from me! :b1:

Sorta tired of using Skial.tf for normal trades and some random server for unusual trading. It would be nice if Wonderland.tf added some trade servers! However, they would have to add some sort of anti-scam policy thing into it, but they probably will figure something out.
 

Blizzard

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question , who will handle things like scamming and trade fraud? And it would be preferable to make a new trade unusual map for this because certain unusual servers for trading are populated because of the unique map they have that no one else has access to, so are we going to use the normal trade plaza or a unique made map?
 

Eight

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There's multiple difficulties that properly implementing an Unusual Trade server would pose. These difficulties (i.e. partnering with SteamREP and proper moderation of trading) have been discussed among staff and we have decided it is not a good course of action.

Declined.
 
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